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foreign

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this is need to know real talk about the\h
reality of unidentified aerial phenomenon\h\h

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from Australia Ross coltart\h
from the U.S Bryce zabel

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hello and welcome to need to know I'm Ross\h
coultart from somewhere near Sydney Australia\h\h

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and in Los Angeles my co-host and colleague\h
Bryce zavel you've been swatting it recently\h\h

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Bryce in the Emmy Awards I noticed lots of\h
little glasses with umbrellas in them I mean\h\h

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if well thank you for that it's been a fun time\h
you know here in Southern California we've been\h\h

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going through the extreme heat wave and it um and\h
it's been something to to contend with right now\h\h

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for example it's so freaking hot and I'm in my own\h
office right now with and the AC broke yesterday\h\h

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so there's just one thing after another but\h
I wanted to say um you're so right the Emmy\h\h

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season has been upon us for the last 10 days and\h
um as as you know and many of the listeners and\h\h

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viewers know I used to be the chairman of the TV\h
Academy and I did not know at the time I ran for\h\h

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that position I became the first writer since\h
Rod Serling to hold the the job I didn't know\h\h

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that you got lifetime tickets to to the Emmys so\h
I've been going to the Emmys every year I go to\h\h

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the creative arts Emmys The Prime Time Emmys the\h
parties and I don't want to complain uh it's great\h\h

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food good fun good entertainment good people but\h
it's a lot but my the one thing I feel sorry for\h\h

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you about because I was in Los Angeles as you\h
know only a few weeks ago is having to wear a\h\h

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penguin suit in that incredible Los Angeles feet\h
if I was you I'd be wearing what some of the women\h\h

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have been wearing a nice Slinky little silk number\h
uh well I don't think I would thank you for that\h\h

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however I don't think I would look as good in a\h
slinky little silk number I'll tell you the one\h\h

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thing about the tuxedo what do you call that a\h
penguin penguin yes okay well uh you're closer\h\h

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to Antarctica than I am so that would make sense\h
I guess um I tell you when it's a black suit and\h\h

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it's 100 degrees out and you're you're walking\h
through the heat at least nobody can see you sweat\h\h

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that much so it's it's got its advantages now the\h
thing I I think it's actually pertinent that you\h\h

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ran the Emmys right because one of the things you\h
learned was you were running the Emmys during the\h\h

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crisis in 911 weren't you the right 2001 Dreadful\h
terrorist attack on America and you learned a fair\h\h

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bit didn't you about crisis and disclosure how\h
to handle the prince I think all our days began\h\h

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uh either turning on the TV or listening to the\h
radio or someone we know calling us and saying\h\h

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have you seen what's happening and then trying to\h
find out what the town thought was appropriate to\h\h

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do about uh the situation and and that's really\h
been the defining moment for us I thought it was\h\h

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an interest without a doubt it was the most\h
interesting time in my life uh I got elected\h\h

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a couple of weeks before 9 11 hit and so the very\h
first thing we had to do is cancel the Emmy switch\h\h

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rescheduled for September 16th so we did then\h
we rescheduled them for October 7th and on that\h\h

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morning the U.S invaded Afghanistan and nobody\h
wanted to come so we canceled them a second time\h\h

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and then we put them on the third time against\h
the seventh game of an exciting World Series it\h\h

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was really something America strikes back if there\h
were something to happen again do you see yourself\h\h

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canceling this again for good or no matter what\h
happens this show will go on our plan on November\h\h

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4th is to give the Emmys away one way or the other\h
and so uh the show is going on and that's our plan\h\h

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and I guess if I have to show up on the stage\h
and hand them out myself I'll do that Bryce I\h\h

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don't know if you're a baseball fan but uh you\h
know you know that there's a risk here the World\h\h

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Series will be going on at that time if there is\h
a seventh game needed between whichever teams are\h\h

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playing it'll happen on that same night it'll\h
happen on Fox and you're going to be broadcast\h\h

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on CBS and those two programs could bump into each\h
other how worried about that are you I'm not I'm\h\h

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not a CBS programmer but I'll tell you something\h
thing Matt it seems to me that if what happens\h\h

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on November 4th Sunday night is that the World\h
Series is broadcast live on one network and the\h\h

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Emmy Awards is broadcast Live on another Network\h
that is a powerful symbol to all the world and\h\h

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especially to Americans here at home that things\h
are going on the way they're supposed to be going\h\h

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on because things are still happening around here\h
and so I would look at that as a good and positive\h\h

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thing instead of a negative but I do think it has\h
some lessons about disclosure because it's uh an\h\h

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official act to sort of reach out and brief people\h
I was sort of the briefer in Chief and and oddly\h\h

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because uh the Emmys sort of represented Hollywood\h
people were looking for us to show that we got it\h\h

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and so we had to really calibrate our messages\h
one of the things that I came away from very\h\h

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strongly I've always believed in transparency but\h
I certainly believed in transparency when it comes\h\h

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to important issues people don't want to be messed\h
with they don't care what the truth is exactly\h\h

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they may have preferences but they want to hear\h
the truth and so we never we never tried to make\h\h

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it anything other than it was it was a serious\h
situation we had snipers on the roof um but I'll\h\h

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tell you the one thing uh that also mattered which\h
is kind of interesting is to get your message so\h\h

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that everybody gets on the same page quickly\h
and so sometimes that involves just saying well\h\h

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what's the simplest way to say something so for\h
example on the safety issue I started saying to\h\h

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people you'll be safer in your own bath you'll be\h
safer at the Emmys than you will be in your own\h\h

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bathtub which was statistically true and I think\h
the lessons for disclosure are uh you just get\h\h

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on with it uh you try to be honest with people\h
you know it's not going to go perfect every day\h\h

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you're going to reassess the situation uh and\h
yet the world has to go on and that's that's\h\h

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what I think is uh the message for a disclosure\h
and I look forward when we do a new show that's\h\h

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all about disclosure there's some deeper lessons\h
and we'll talk about some of those at that time\h\h

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it's funny though you know because one of the the\h
best segue from what you've just said there about\h\h

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the need to be transparent and the need to be\h
open is that frankly I think the Navy's decision\h\h

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to refuse John Greenwald of the Blackville the\h
release of the other redacted videos the sorry the\h\h

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censored videos that are still being held inside\h
government and inside the Pentagon these are\h\h

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videos that have been seen by members of Congress\h
Senators Representatives which have been shown in\h\h

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private Skiffs private hearings and in a great bit\h
of work John Greenwald from the Blackville tried\h\h

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to obtain those videos because they've been widely\h
talked about they've been widely acknowledged and\h\h

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not un unlegitimately illegitimately you know the\h
argument is if it was okay to release the go fast\h\h

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the Tic Tac and uh the gimbal yeah and they were\h
fully unredacted when they released why can't\h\h

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they release the rest of them and the Pentagon\h
the U.S Navy has come back with an excuse that\h\h

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frankly I think deserves a blowtorch it needs\h
a Hypersonic missile basically because frankly\h\h

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I I just do not buy the explanation that uh for\h
some reason the U.S Navy needs to protect sources\h\h

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methods capabilities um in order to you know\h
if it releases these videos it would somehow\h\h

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compromise National Security and I think if\h
you're talking about transparency if you're\h\h

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talking about the fact that people are now openly\h
talking about the fact that there is a phenomenon\h\h

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that is not explicable that is not capable of\h
explanation that cannot be prosaically explained\h\h

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that is doing weird things in our skies that is\h
a threat to National Security and flight safety\h\h

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it's a very bad lesson for disclosure that the\h
U.S Navy who I've previously been very kind to\h\h

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has basically uh decided to gag and censor then\h
at the very least we need more explanation don't\h\h

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you agree uh well I I do a couple of thoughts uh\h
on the issue of redaction uh I mean I it depends\h\h

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on how you Define redaction those first three\h
videos that came out were awfully short I mean\h\h

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they're tiny tiny pieces of longer videos so\h
in that sense I would argue they were redacted\h\h

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um we're certainly looking for let's put it\h
this way one there's rumors of a 20 minute\h\h

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23 minute video that's blowing Minds in the\h
halls of Congress when people were showing\h\h

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it in Skiffs and so forth frankly one great\h
video is going to change the entire game and\h\h

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I think the people in Washington who care about\h
such things probably know that I was as shocked\h\h

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as you were to see the Navy on the wrong side\h
of transparency because ever since we've been\h\h

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doing this podcast uh one thing has been clear\h
it's been the air force that historically had\h\h

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to deal with the UFO issue and didn't do a good\h
job of it because they kept denying it denying\h\h

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it denying it and now it looked like we were in\h
for a new period of openness with the Navy and\h\h

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I was really welcoming that because they seem\h
to have the best interests of transparency and\h\h

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and disclosure uh however they were going to do\h
it so I'm a little disappointed I'm more than a\h\h

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little disappointed I think this is something that\h
has to be fought I I I it's funny nick West took\h\h

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a swipe at me basically saying oh yes we need\h
to roll over and meekly accept the assurances\h\h

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from the National Security establishment that you\h
know there's a good National Security reason why\h\h

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we shouldn't heal these these uh these videos\h
yeah I just think that's [\h__\h] and I'm calling\h\h

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on that I I think it's time to start getting\h
aggressive people need to start writing their\h\h

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Congressional Representatives they need to be\h
shaking the cage because we're at a very very\h\h

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vulnerable time now we've got the Appropriations\h
defense Appropriations legislation which has got\h\h

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the key sections in that bill that would allow\h
whistleblowers to be deposed in hearings before\h\h

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the congress with protections and immunities to\h
stop them from being bullied or threatened or\h\h

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prosecuted because they've breached their ndas\h
revealing UFO UAP secrets so the Congress is\h\h

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debating that at the moment and as I know from my\h
recent visit to America in Washington DC you know\h\h

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there are people in the Congress who are well\h
disposed to ask hard questions and to get these\h\h

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issues answered but they're not going to keep that\h
momentum going unless people rattle the cage and\h\h

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frankly I mean we we had those two dweebs from\h
the intelligence Services back in May who came\h\h

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before the Congress and gave a complete wet his\h
explanation that endeavored to suggest to the\h\h

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Congress that whatever these objects were don't\h
you worry your tiny little heads about it they're\h\h

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probably Chinese drones and as you and I discussed\h
in the last podcast that's a load of bollocks\h\h

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um you know there really is I think the beginning\h
of an attempt by the Navy which I've previously\h\h

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been quite supportive of because a lot of\h
the push for more openness and transparency\h\h

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on this issue has come from the US Navy but\h
it is crushingly disappointing to see the U.S\h\h

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Navy's Representatives both in the Congress but\h
also in their answers to John Greenwald giving\h\h

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an explanation that frankly is implausible if\h
it was okay to release the Tic Tac the Gimbal\h\h

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and the go fast it's okay to at least consider\h
releasing part some or all of the videos that\h\h

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are still before the Congress in Skiffs I think\h
one thing we should clear up right away though\h\h

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is okay what if they do have those hearings\h
but those hearings are private right what if\h\h

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those hearings are behind closed doors and are\h
secure hearings I think a lot of people are very\h\h

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interested in public hearings they would like to\h
know uh something and and also I am continually\h\h

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not happy with the idea that we Define the\h
terms here as if we have to disclose everything\h\h

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at all at once what I think people are basically\h
expecting the U.S government and other governments\h\h

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around the world on this globe to do is to confirm\h
that this thing is real and we have to look into\h\h

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it and that they're going to start going through\h
what they've got and share it with people people\h\h

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want to know what is happening we understand\h
classification I think everybody can can realize\h\h

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that there are times when sources and methods\h
for example are uh up in the air and and need\h\h

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to be protected in a very dangerous world but that\h
doesn't mean you hide the essential confirmation\h\h

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that we're not alone if indeed the US government\h
and other governments are convinced that we're not\h\h

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alone why they don't share that with us seems to\h
be uh the thing that really Riles me so I I just\h\h

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wanted to pick your brain on this I know we both\h
have our different sources what are your sources\h\h

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telling you about whether these are whether we're\h
going to see public hearings in 2023 well the the\h\h

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feedback that I've got is very much that there is\h
no plausible reason to not release some or all of\h\h

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these videos at least in a rejected form you know\h
I mean sure by all means if you're filming from\h\h

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the the cockpit of an fa-18 fighter you don't\h
want to show a potential adversary the uh the\h\h

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weapons read art or the systems reader that shows\h
how well and at Fleur Imaging system can detect\h\h

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an object from 20 miles away appreciate you know\h
you don't want to reveal probabilities and methods\h\h

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but I have a strong suspicion and unfortunately\h
the Navy's conduct in this whole area is leading\h\h

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people to this perception whether it's true or not\h
by gagging the release of any of these videos by\h\h

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putting a blanket refusal on the release of any of\h
these videos all the US Navy is doing is fueling\h\h

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the perception that it is trying to conceal\h
from the public that there is an extraordinary\h\h

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explanation for what these objects are I do\h
not buy the sources capabilities and methods\h\h

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explanation the idea that it would breach National\h
Security hence we have to stop the release of\h\h

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every single video I've spoken to Congressman\h
senators and I've spoken to their staffers none\h\h

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of them have suggested to me that these videos\h
cannot or should not be released let me just throw\h\h

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one thing in there though also respond to what\h
you just said earlier which is private hearings\h\h

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I also think that it's inevitable that there are\h
going to be private hearings I I think that the\h\h

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first section of hearings would would have to be\h
private um frankly I think it's important you know\h\h

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we do we do need to respect National Security\h
concerns there does need if the implications of\h\h

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this are as awesome as we suspect they are then it\h
does need to be discussed in private hearing but\h\h

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the notion that there won't after that be public\h
hearings where a version of what's being said can\h\h

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be revealed for public analysis and scrutiny is\h
absurd there it is absurd let me just the thing\h\h

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I was just gonna throw in there is I don't care\h
about seeing the dials inside the fa-18 okay I'm\h\h

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not demanding my government disclosed with the\h
cockpit of our super secret or top aircraft look\h\h

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like I want to see the craft that those dials\h
are revealing and if they have images of craft\h\h

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I don't see how showing us the images of even just\h
one of them and just saying yep here's an example\h\h

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of what we don't know where it comes from or what\h
it is and we we're looking into it or if they have\h\h

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looked into it I'd like to know what they think\h
about it interesting you we were talking about\h\h

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government here uh you know we do polls here at\h
need to know once in a while on our on our Twitter\h\h

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feed and we just did one a few days ago where we\h
asked people uh what person in the U.S Congress\h\h

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do they think has been the most effective on the\h
UAP issue and we got over a thousand votes on this\h\h

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one Ross and it was kind of interesting it was a\h
blowout there were they only give you four options\h\h

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for for in a Twitter poll so we could have put\h
everybody in but we couldn't we had to pick four\h\h

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so we picked uh Kirsten gillibrand uh Timber Chet\h
uh Marco Rubio and Andre Carson okay and it was a\h\h

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complete blowout gillibrand was 73 I mean that's\h
like Landslide plus territory burchett was number\h\h

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two with 14 Rubio 10 and what's interesting to\h
me is you were talking about that limp uh hearing\h\h

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that they had on May 17th of this year which\h
was put together by Andre Carson for a while\h\h

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people were like hey man maybe he's the guy maybe\h
he's the guy that's going to do this and he put\h\h

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together such a limp hearing he got three percent\h
in our pool he suffered in this one so listen\h\h

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um I while I do agree with you um that we're\h
gonna have to uh respect some security issues\h\h

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uh I hope that they rapidly get to the public\h
hearings because people are ready to hear about\h\h

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that okay let's help Let's help our audience with\h
the timetable for that because I know there's been\h\h

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discussion that the ndia the national uh defense\h
authorizations act um might be passed or at least\h\h

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the sections pertaining to whistleblowers for\h
the uaps issue might be passed earlier than we\h\h

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expected but I suspect it won't be nailed down\h
until the end of December like it was last year\h\h

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the ndfa laws and that's the Appropriations for\h
the defense department for the following year and\h\h

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I think it's almost inevitable from what people\h
are telling me that we've still got the January\h\h

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six hearings dragging on uh we've got the\h
upcoming midterm elections so I think there\h\h

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are a few distractions that are going to make\h
it very hard for hearings of any substance to\h\h

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be held until sometime next year but I recognize\h
respect that early next year you're going to start\h\h

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hearing about private hearings on the hill I mean\h
I'm told they've already been quite a number of\h\h

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private hearings that have taken place inside the\h
Congress in Secure rooms where certain senators\h\h

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and congression Congressional Representatives have\h
already heard evidence particularly from military\h\h

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personnel and that is that's what's emboldened\h
them to go harder okay we had a brief disruption\h\h

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because I had to put headphones on because of some\h
technical issues but Bryce there's one other issue\h\h

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that I wanted to discuss with you which of course\h
is the relevance of the month of October there's\h\h

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an issue coming up for Americans and the relevance\h
of uaps in the next month October yeah October\h\h

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is a big month it could be a game changer let me\h
explain uh when the National Defense authorization\h\h

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act that you were just talking about that has very\h
powerful immunity and witness protection language\h\h

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in this year's version last year demanded that a\h
yearly annual report on UAP be delivered no later\h\h

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than October 31st of every year um to me that\h
means it'll come in on October 31st because the\h\h

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last one was due on June 25th and that's when it\h
came in so they're going to take probably they're\h\h

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like a college student they're going to take all\h
the time that they need to get that paper and then\h\h

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they're going to turn in at the last minute okay\h
what could be in it well okay remember the last\h\h

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one said that these things are real uh we probably\h
don't make them and we don't think Russia or China\h\h

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makes makes them so we're gonna have to advance\h
from that let me back up here in the United States\h\h

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our midterms are happening uh on November 8th\h
those are the midterm elections all of Congress\h\h

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Senate and House I mean a third of the Senate all\h
the house many Governors everybody up for election\h\h

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so here's the thing about October uh there's a\h
concept here in the United States about politics\h\h

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that there's of the October surprise which is some\h
big news event that happens the month before the\h\h

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election and then affects the election well\h
okay our midterm elections November 8th the\h\h

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the new report supposedly coming out October\h
31st man that is the ultimate possibility for\h\h

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an October surprise because if this new report\h
does advance the conversation in any meaningful\h\h

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way from the last one then at least somebody's\h
going to be talking about it what about these uh\h\h

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these Congress people that we just talked about uh\h
you don't think gillibrand and and Burchette and\h\h

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Rubio and all are going to have uh things to say\h
about it and Rubio by the way is in a really tough\h\h

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re-election battle in Florida so in the final week\h
of of his campaign a guy who's been outspoken on\h\h

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the UAP issue is going to have a UAP report uh\h
being dumped around the country so I mean I don't\h\h

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know what it's going to say but I know that it has\h
the definite possibility of doing something that\h\h

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we just never see happen UFOs slash UAP almost\h
never make it into the election and when they\h\h

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do it's an afterthought uh you know when Dennis\h
kucenich ran for president admitted he saw UFO but\h\h

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he made fun of him that was it this is different\h
this has the possibility of being perceived as a\h\h

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national security issue and as a national security\h
issue it has reason for reporters and people in\h\h

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the media to talk to these politicians and say\h
what's your take on this so I don't know I'm\h\h

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not saying we're going to have a blowout here\h
I'm saying it's possible because we literally\h\h

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don't know what's going to be in that report but\h
I'll say one final thought on it Ross it's going\h\h

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to tell people like you and me something because\h
either it advances the conversation where that\h\h

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last one was or it retreats if it Retreats that is\h
the best evidence possible that people are trying\h\h

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to put the genie back in the bottle okay but\h
there's one positive bit of light that came out\h\h

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and this was in an addendum to the intelligence\h
authorization act for the fiscal year 2023\h\h

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and Congress has made two quite astonishing claims\h
in that legislation the first is quote cross\h\h

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domain transmedium threats to the United States\h
national security are expanding exponentially\h\h

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that's a big claim and the second is that Congress\h
is now distinguishing between UFOs uaps that are\h\h

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human in origin and those that are not quote\h
temporary non-attributed objects or those that\h\h

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are positively identified as man-made after\h
analysis will be passed to appropriate offices\h\h

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and should not be considered under the definition\h
as unidentified Aerospace undersea phenomena the\h\h

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document says now that's really quite important I\h
know it sounds as dry as dust but it's very very\h\h

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oh wait I don't I mean it depends on uh it depends\h
on who you are whether it's dry as does I want to\h\h

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explain uh one thing about our show on our show\h
we try we we want to be everything to everybody\h\h

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I guess we want to be a show that if you know\h
something about this topic you can still enjoy\h\h

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watching us and and joining in on the conversation\h
but if you're just coming to it we want to be able\h\h

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to help bring people into it so what I want\h
to point out about what Ross just said is\h\h

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we didn't make this stuff up folks this is\h
from the U.S government in their uh and our\h\h

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representatives in their official works and I\h
just have to say this again I hope I get it right\h\h

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correct me if I'm wrong cross domain transmedium\h
threats are expanding exponentially so break that\h\h

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down Let's cross domain what does cross domain\h
mean and God means going from water to Sea well\h\h

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that's transmedia that's transmedium right from\h
space to Atmosphere to see is that also have\h\h

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you picked it up cross domain yeah maybe because\h
I'm told they're seeing these things now in the\h\h

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Middle East as well see that's what I thought\h
that's what okay so let's just break this down\h\h

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cross domain probably means where they're being\h
seen in in terms of uh okay transmedium means\h\h

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from space to Atmosphere to Ocean or from Ocean to\h
Atmosphere things that we don't really build craft\h\h

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to do and then threats expanding exponentially\h
I mean damn it that is some serious talk from\h\h

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people that got elected to go to Washington DC\h
and and make laws and they're now talking about\h\h

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openly and at the very least we should just\h
underline this and put it in bold and italics\h\h

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it didn't used to be this way for the last 75\h
years basically or at least yeah 75 years the\h\h

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US government when it spoke officially about\h
UFOs was to act like there wasn't a lot going\h\h

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on and that uh people that saw them or reported\h
them and might add a little screw loose there\h\h

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they're not saying that anymore things have\h
changed they sure have you know it's funny\h\h

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because I mean I I guess the takeaway from that\h
is that essentially Congress now seems to be\h\h

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specifically distinguishing between objects that\h
are human made and objects that aren't yeah oh\h\h

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no that was the other part of it it's like yeah\h
and and it also appears to be contemplating the\h\h

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possibility that these objects are constructed\h
but they are not built by humans well let me put\h\h

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it this way if you're creating precise language\h
for to go into a law and you're not worried about\h\h

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things that aren't human you don't really have to\h
make a big declaration about things that are made\h\h

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by humans and things that aren't I mean that's a\h
distinction I don't tend to make in my everyday\h\h

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conversation with people so when you see that\h
in there you have to at least tell yourself\h\h

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that was said for a reason hey yeah go ahead go\h
ahead there's a guy there's a guy a really good\h\h

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article actually by the way advice that I would\h
refer people to and they were following up very\h\h

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much on groundbreaking work that was done by the\h
UFO researcher Doug Johnson but in in the course\h\h

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of that Vice article there's a quote from marikamp\h
who was an Obama DOD official and he's quoted as\h\h

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a saying that the implications of these new bits\h
of law are this implies that members of the Senate\h\h

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intelligence committee believe on a unanimous\h
bipartisan basis that some UFOs have non-human\h\h

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Origins after all why would Congress establish\h
and task a powerful new office with investigating\h\h

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non-man-made UFOs if such objects did not\h
exist I I it blows my mind so that's the thing\h\h

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if 2023 isn't a big year coming up I don't know\h
why it's not I mean the things are all set up and\h\h

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teed up and and I know you have some thoughts\h
about it I wanted to just drop one other poll\h\h

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that we took because I find this stuff kind of\h
interesting I'm not saying our polls describe all\h\h

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of America or all of the world there are they're\h
a slice of UFO activists uh that we get a chance\h\h

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to look at on Twitter we asked them recently in\h
a second poll did they think 2023 was going to be\h\h

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Sizzle or fizzle when it came to UAP disclosure\h
and openness and here's what's interesting\h\h

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we have an almost dead heat about 40 percent uh\h
for people who think it's going to be sizzling\h\h

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and lots of things are going to be popping and\h
40 percent say it's going to be a fizzle and\h\h

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it's not going to amount to anything like it ought\h
to and about 20 undecided now what that tells me\h\h

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Ross that I find fascinating is even among the UAP\h
slash UFO crowd who knows about these things they\h\h

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are evenly and deeply divided on whether they\h
think things are going in the right direction\h\h

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or the wrong direction and I find that interesting\h
because we're all looking at the same set of facts\h\h

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right I mean the we all we all read these articles\h
we listen to our you know people's podcasts we\h\h

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hang on the words of people from DC and yet we\h
have an a complete split down the middle about\h\h

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whether it's going to be a big year or not so much\h
and meanwhile UFO Twitter starts to self-immolate\h\h

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and tear itself apart I've I think this is one\h
thing we need to talk about yes we do go ahead\h\h

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and take it just the incredible goings-on on UFO\h
Twitter at the moment where for some reason people\h\h

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have eaten a bit too much red meat and decided\h
to take a swipe at Lou Elizondo in particular\h\h

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um let me give you my take if you like on what's\h
going on I want you to hold for just one second\h\h

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though just one second let's set this thing up\h
about Lou Alexander because again not everyone\h\h

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knows everything about everything blue Elizondo\h
is the person who ran the UFO group for the\h\h

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United States until 2017 and he resigned to try\h
to take his story to the public and he's been a\h\h

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lightning rod of controversy but he's also been\h
the guy that was on 60 Minutes and about oh 10\h\h

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000 podcasts expressing his opinions\h
about things and he's he's been enormously\h\h

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controversial so we can't really say he's\h
just crossed the threshold into controversy\h\h

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he's very controversial so having set that up\h
he also had a hell of a week so take it away\h\h

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sure I'm not going to single out individuals\h
because it's pointless because I don't frankly\h\h

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I don't want to buy into the the nastiness and\h
the infighting but uh the thing that I think a\h\h

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lot of people have been doing is picking out\h
inconsistencies or uh issues that need to be\h\h

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checked with Elizondo particularly about the\h
status of the work that he was doing for the\h\h

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pentagon's UAP investigation program uh either\h
under the moniker atip aatip or orsap aawsap\h\h

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um basically there's no doubt because Harry\h
Reid the senator has no before he passed put\h\h

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it into a letter Lou did run some kind of UFO UAP\h
investigation program in the Pentagon but there's\h\h

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a section of UFO Twitter that is tearing itself\h
apart ascribing all manner of sinister motives\h\h

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to Elizondo because he's basically made claims\h
that the Pentagon disputes I know is Susan Goff\h\h

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the Pentagon PR woman has on occasion disputed\h
Louis zondo's claims to be the the head of atip\h\h

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or the director of atip and more importantly I\h
I actually think there's one inconsistency that\h\h

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I do think Lou needs to explain and I suspect\h
at some stage he will which is in his various\h\h

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tweets he has asserted that he never had anything\h
to do with orsap which is the apparently the real\h\h

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name for the the program that was farmed up\h
by the DIA to Bob Bigelow's bass uh Bigelow\h\h

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Aerospace company to do the UAP and indeed\h
paranormal investigations that they all did\h\h

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but frankly there is an inconsistency because\h
Lou in his Inspector General complaint and a few\h\h

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people have quite legitimately pointed this out\h
he has uh said that um he's acknowledged that he\h\h

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did have something to do with orsap and that um\h
you know he was connected to warsap so there's\h\h

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a there's a contradiction there that he needs to\h
explain now a lot of people have seized on that\h\h

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and other inconsistencies and lose a cad and\h
they've also seized on the fact that he's a a\h\h

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counterintelligence agent a counterintelligence\h
officer to suggest that What's Happening Here\h\h

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is that he's essentially some dark agent of\h
the U.S government pushing a threat agenda\h\h

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to justify military expenditure to justify\h
a huge amount of money going to space force\h\h

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now my personal take on this is yes we should\h
always be skeptical when somebody who still has\h\h

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by the way a national security classification\h
with compartmentalized security clearances we\h\h

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should always be skeptical when somebody is\h
purporting to be a whistleblower but yet still\h\h

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enjoys their security classification and it's good\h
to be skeptical I would hope that Lou would hope\h\h

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that we're skeptical but I think for people to\h
immediately seize on those inconsistencies and\h\h

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start character assassinating him and suggesting\h
that he's some kind of dark Voldemort Lord who's\h\h

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coordinating a disinformation campaign against UFO\h
Twitter against the whole push for transparency\h\h

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and that we're all being manipulated in some\h
kind of dark counter-intelligence operation\h\h

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show me the evidence and I don't see the evidence\h
from what's being presented what's your take well\h\h

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we can't call them Voldemort Voldemort because\h
that's the guy who cannot be named and if the one\h\h

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00:33:52,140 --> 00:33:58,140
name everybody seems to know is Lou Elizondo\h
he is synonymous with sort of a current UFO\h\h

328
00:33:58,140 --> 00:34:05,880
uh discussion here's what I find odd about this\h
thing if the knock on Lou Elizondo is currently\h\h

329
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:11,400
that well because he works for space force as\h
a consultant or whatever he's doing for them if\h\h

330
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:18,180
that proves that he is a tool of the government\h
then that would mean somebody in government has\h\h

331
00:34:18,180 --> 00:34:24,240
pushed him out and said okay Lou we want you to\h
go on those 10 000 podcasts in 60 minutes and we\h\h

332
00:34:24,240 --> 00:34:29,700
want you to tell everybody that UFOs are real\h
and that uh we've got great evidence of them\h\h

333
00:34:29,700 --> 00:34:36,660
and that we think there's been crash wreckage and\h
everything else find that well I mean okay let's\h\h

334
00:34:36,660 --> 00:34:41,580
say that that's actually true well then that means\h
the government is pushing a disclosure agenda and\h\h

335
00:34:41,580 --> 00:34:45,840
they're doing it in their own way but but they\h
are pushing it so I find that a little odd now\h\h

336
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:52,860
I will say though that anybody who's in the public\h
in public life uh it knows that they're going to\h\h

337
00:34:52,860 --> 00:34:58,440
be looked at and looked into um I I heard a\h
podcast with uh John Greenwald the other day\h\h

338
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:04,500
uh where he was taking the complaint that Lou\h
Elizondo had filed with the Inspector General\h\h

339
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:11,820
and going over a redacted version of it listen\h
I thought his he was a calm and fair presence\h\h

340
00:35:11,820 --> 00:35:17,820
uh going through and I think it's perfectly okay I\h
mean maybe Lou Alexander should go on his show and\h\h

341
00:35:17,820 --> 00:35:22,260
talk about it maybe you should come back on here\h
and we'll talk about it uh what do I think though\h\h

342
00:35:23,220 --> 00:35:29,460
I find the guy to be fairly compelling I find\h
him to sound like a guy that's uh pretty much\h\h

343
00:35:29,460 --> 00:35:35,820
knows what he's talking about and uh I also at the\h
same time though find that he's reached the end of\h\h

344
00:35:35,820 --> 00:35:40,740
his rope he's a little thin skin these days about\h
the the attacks and I don't blame him because you\h\h

345
00:35:40,740 --> 00:35:45,060
and I have talked about it too people say bad\h
things about either of us when they see watch\h\h

346
00:35:45,060 --> 00:35:49,320
one of these things they leave a bad comment\h
it does kind of get under your skin and it\h\h

347
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:55,980
makes you angry and Lou has has fired back a few\h
times which I think is totally his right to do it\h\h

348
00:35:56,580 --> 00:35:59,520
um it is interesting though that\h
he literally wrote an article\h\h

349
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:06,240
for Liberation times last week that was\h
called um I he I think it was like YouTube

350
00:36:06,240 --> 00:36:20,640
now here's what's funny about it because on that\h
same day I I literally heard from Lou's wife that\h\h

351
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:25,920
um they had watched a video that you and I had\h
had produced for this channel that was called\h\h

352
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:30,420
oddly enough a profane rant about modern\h
ufology and they thought it was very funny\h\h

353
00:36:30,420 --> 00:36:36,360
and uh first of all that made my day that\h
you Elizondo was watching this thing but\h\h

354
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:41,220
um if people want to see that and get a sense\h
of the frustration level some people have had\h\h

355
00:36:41,220 --> 00:36:46,740
with ufology go to need to know dot today which\h
is our website and it's posted on there on the\h\h

356
00:36:46,740 --> 00:36:51,120
main page and you can you can also look at that\h
but I don't know Ross I want to ask you the same\h\h

357
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:56,520
question though I mean at the end of the day you\h
know you've talked to many thousands of people in\h\h

358
00:36:56,520 --> 00:37:04,080
your career I've talked to many thousands myself\h
and I remember uh thinking to myself quite often\h\h

359
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:09,720
that it made me a pretty good judge a character\h
that I could look at a person and and hear what\h\h

360
00:37:09,720 --> 00:37:15,900
they said and I'd been lied to my face to by\h
experts over my journalistic career I'm sure you\h\h

361
00:37:15,900 --> 00:37:24,900
have too so you talk to Lou Elizondo man-to-man\h
eye to eye what's your take because Lou is a spook\h\h

362
00:37:24,900 --> 00:37:31,080
a trained counterintelligence officer doesn't\h
make me innately skeptical of everything he says\h\h

363
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:36,120
um one of the difficulties that I have as a\h
journalist and I'm sure you have the same issue\h\h

364
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:43,080
is a lot of the perception that I have of Louis\h
zondo is colored by what I know privately from\h\h

365
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:48,120
people who've spoken to me in either the defense\h
or the intelligence Community or in the Congress\h\h

366
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:56,700
and I can tell you he's held an extremely high\h
regard nobody is telling me that we should have\h\h

367
00:37:56,700 --> 00:38:03,060
a disbelief of what he says because there are\h
and there are as John greenwald's pointed out\h\h

368
00:38:03,060 --> 00:38:08,880
there are inconsistencies that Lou needs to\h
explain about why he said different things\h\h

369
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:16,200
about whether or not he had a role with warsap but\h
frankly do you hang a guy on the evidence of a few\h\h

370
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:22,140
inconsistencies in documents I don't no and one\h
of the things that one of the things that I'm used\h\h

371
00:38:22,140 --> 00:38:29,820
to as a journalist is I talk to spies and defense\h
officials all the time it's my job and often they\h\h

372
00:38:29,820 --> 00:38:35,100
spin you I mean I I can remember member right back\h
at the time of the Iraq War there were people in\h\h

373
00:38:35,100 --> 00:38:40,440
Australia's defense intelligence establishment\h
who were genuinely concerned that we were going\h\h

374
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:46,080
to war on some very specious evidence and a lot\h
of that evidence was coming through Australia you\h\h

375
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:53,040
know we were quite heavily involved in helping our\h
American Ally and I wish I wish I'd picked up more\h\h

376
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:58,860
on what those people were indicating but it just\h
seemed so Fringe and there seemed such certainty\h\h

377
00:38:58,860 --> 00:39:05,940
that there was a legitimate reason to evade invade\h
Iraq and we were misled and so disinformation does\h\h

378
00:39:05,940 --> 00:39:11,160
happen it does and Lou is an interesting case\h
because one there's really just two possibilities\h\h

379
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:19,440
one is he is exactly what he said he was he he\h
ran the program he got fed up he left so he could\h\h

380
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:24,900
really be a truth teller all right in which\h
case then he's saying some pretty astounding\h\h

381
00:39:24,900 --> 00:39:30,960
things as the truth that he had to tell by leaving\h
government or option two he still got relations\h\h

382
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:36,420
with governor government and this truth that he's\h
telling is one that they want him to tell which is\h\h

383
00:39:36,420 --> 00:39:43,140
also supremely strange so what I'm sure I'm sure\h
there is affection and I know this I know that\h\h

384
00:39:43,140 --> 00:39:48,660
there is affection in the defense and intelligence\h
Community who are right behind blue yeah the quest\h\h

385
00:39:48,660 --> 00:39:54,960
the question is which faction will dominate and\h
and Brian Bender made this point this week that\h\h

386
00:39:54,960 --> 00:40:00,000
a lot of people who don't understand who don't\h
report on National Security and defense they tend\h\h

387
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:06,240
to see the National Security establishment as one\h
big amorphous blob yeah the real the reality is\h\h

388
00:40:06,240 --> 00:40:12,900
that the defense and intelligence establishment is\h
as snipey and as [\h__\h] as UFO Twitter they're all\h\h

389
00:40:12,900 --> 00:40:19,620
shafting each other all of these agencies the NSA\h
the CIA the DIA they're all trying to undo each\h\h

390
00:40:19,620 --> 00:40:25,680
other the whole time they spend more time like in\h
my my career when I wasn't working for Australia's\h\h

391
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:31,020
60 minutes but I was working for other programs\h
in the same network we would do our little best\h\h

392
00:40:31,020 --> 00:40:36,000
to screw them over and make it as difficult as\h
possible for them you know there's a rivalry that\h\h

393
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:42,120
takes place in organizations and I think this is\h
happening in National Security and defense and so\h\h

394
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:47,520
I'm not surprised at all that there are people\h
inside the National Security establishment who\h\h

395
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:52,620
who are telling uh commentators that you know\h
you should be skeptical about what Elizondo\h\h

396
00:40:52,620 --> 00:40:59,700
is saying but I think we should actually look at\h
what's happened in the last five six years since\h\h

397
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:06,660
the very first inklings that there was beginning\h
to be a degree of transparency and disclosure\h\h

398
00:41:06,660 --> 00:41:14,940
look at how far we have come since 2017. oh it's\h
it's it's astonishing you know I was thinking as\h\h

399
00:41:14,940 --> 00:41:19,860
you were saying that though I go well we've\h
responded about Lou Elizondo and we've just\h\h

400
00:41:19,860 --> 00:41:25,920
done five minutes on that we should actually\h
respond to what he had to say right the content\h\h

401
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:33,300
of what he said was ufology must die right okay\h
now everyone who knows Lou thinks he's a pretty\h\h

402
00:41:33,300 --> 00:41:38,400
hail fellow well met most of the time right so\h
he's not Lord Voldemort yet there he is saying\h\h

403
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:44,700
ufology Must Die well here's my take on ufology\h
Must Die first of all you got to Define your terms\h\h

404
00:41:44,700 --> 00:41:50,760
what exactly is ufology if it's just people that\h
are interested in UFOs and uh and talk to each\h\h

405
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:56,160
other on social media I don't think that can die\h
or should die because I'm part of it and I don't\h\h

406
00:41:56,160 --> 00:42:03,060
think I should lose my rights to speak so I'm not\h
a hundred and ten percent sure of what Lou thinks\h\h

407
00:42:03,780 --> 00:42:09,960
he's suggesting be done and I was wondering if you\h
have a different take on on his way of looking at\h\h

408
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:15,660
it I think Alexander could have been clearer in\h
the medium story The Liberation time story that\h\h

409
00:42:15,660 --> 00:42:20,760
he wrote I don't think he expressed it very well\h
I think the broad sentiment that he was expressing\h\h

410
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:28,260
if I can Endeavor to read between the lines on\h
what he's saying is that there is a tendency on\h\h

411
00:42:28,260 --> 00:42:36,360
UFO Twitter to get obsessed with minutiae and lose\h
sight of the big picture it's becoming very very\h\h

412
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:43,680
unpleasant I I actually endorse what elizondo's\h
sentiments are which is that it's time for and\h\h

413
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:50,160
I think this is what he meant I think what he's\h
referring to is that it's time for the field of\h\h

414
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:58,620
UAP research to go beyond The Fringe yes time\h
there are people who purport to speak as The\h\h

415
00:42:58,620 --> 00:43:05,940
Gatekeepers for what people should think and say\h
about the phenomenon and frankly their time is\h\h

416
00:43:05,940 --> 00:43:12,480
over this is this is a moment where the mainstream\h
media needs to start engaging where people like\h\h

417
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:17,940
you and I can start taking an interest and I think\h
generally it's not a question of establishment\h\h

418
00:43:17,940 --> 00:43:23,520
media taking over and you know we'll we'll look\h
at this and give you our assessment it's where\h\h

419
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:29,520
good thorough rigorous objective scientific\h
analysis needs to come in we need to look at\h\h

420
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:35,940
data we need to actually properly assess sightings\h
reports there needs to be an attempt to collate\h\h

421
00:43:35,940 --> 00:43:42,000
information in a responsible and serious way one\h
of the problems that that I'm really worried about\h\h

422
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:47,760
at the moment is at the very time when Congress\h
is basically deciding whether or not it runs with\h\h

423
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:53,820
this ball you've got UFO Twitter behaving like\h
a bunch of frat kids fighting each other over\h\h

424
00:43:53,820 --> 00:43:58,740
over you know who gets the credit and who gets\h
the glory I think frankly it's a combined effort\h\h

425
00:43:58,740 --> 00:44:05,700
and and people need to stop sniping and bitching\h
well lose stop stop worrying about the minutiae\h\h

426
00:44:05,700 --> 00:44:12,300
and focus on the broad picture okay but uh I\h
I just don't want anyone to get the impression\h\h

427
00:44:12,300 --> 00:44:17,280
that you know this is some kind of elitist\h
thing I I'm not saying and I know you're not\h\h

428
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:22,380
saying hey you know we're responsible people so\h
we should get to come and talk about it I think\h\h

429
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:29,280
this is a big picture story that affects everybody\h
on the planet everybody has a right to talk about\h\h

430
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:36,480
it now what's frustrating and I wish would stop\h
is when it gets personal personal attacks never\h\h

431
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:42,960
seem to advance the cause of knowledge they cut\h
they Advance the cause of emotion and right now\h\h

432
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:48,300
we need to get on the same team I mean I think\h
one of the things that we should clearly all be\h\h

433
00:44:48,300 --> 00:44:53,100
thinking about and that probably this is the\h
essence of what he was just saying is look if\h\h

434
00:44:53,100 --> 00:44:58,380
there is another intelligence or intelligences out\h
there that are watching us or paying attention to\h\h

435
00:44:58,380 --> 00:45:04,140
us or interacting with us that makes all of us a\h
little more uh in common than we thought we're all\h\h

436
00:45:04,140 --> 00:45:09,540
human beings and we should behave as if we like\h
each other a little bit more that should go across\h\h

437
00:45:09,540 --> 00:45:14,640
the board we you know it's like my mom used to say\h
when I would fight with my brother you guys need\h\h

438
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:20,160
to be nicer to each other and I think that that's\h
probably true um one thing I did want to bridge\h\h

439
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:24,720
to because I know we're running out of time here\h
Ross we have little housekeeping work that you\h\h

440
00:45:24,720 --> 00:45:32,520
and I need to do what people need to understand is\h
there's a great hour and 18 minute video that was\h\h

441
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:38,940
made with your folks at Channel 7 in Australia\h
with their production help and uh I think right\h\h

442
00:45:38,940 --> 00:45:44,340
now on YouTube it's close to 800 000 views and\h
on its way to a million so I think you and I are\h\h

443
00:45:44,340 --> 00:45:50,460
both deeply uh thankful to channel 7 for their\h
assistance in doing that and also thankful to\h\h

444
00:45:50,460 --> 00:45:57,660
all the people that that would watch it now that\h
was also an adjunct to the one hour uh documentary\h\h

445
00:45:57,660 --> 00:46:02,580
that you did that has so far aired only in\h
Australia so there are a lot of things out there\h\h

446
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:08,880
that each one of us has something that people have\h
sort of glommed on to that we need to explain a\h\h

447
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:13,860
little bit more so I thought I would ask you\h
about your issue and then you can interview me\h\h

448
00:46:13,860 --> 00:46:20,700
about my issue and we can try to set the record\h
straight okay now not everyone saw uh the bets\h\h

449
00:46:20,700 --> 00:46:25,620
ball piece that was in the one hour documentary\h
so I think you probably do need to give a quick\h\h

450
00:46:25,620 --> 00:46:31,500
explanation of it but the main thing people want\h
to know is they felt uh they feel a little at\h\h

451
00:46:31,500 --> 00:46:39,240
Sea that the we discussed this and we we went\h
to a guy's house to see this uh device but we\h\h

452
00:46:39,240 --> 00:46:44,040
have not actually updated anybody yet on how\h
it's getting tested so maybe you can sort of\h\h

453
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:49,500
tell us a little bit about what it is and when we\h
might expect information from the uh testing that\h\h

454
00:46:49,500 --> 00:46:56,880
Dr Gary Nolan was leading the charge on sure okay\h
just to explain to our viewers and listeners in a\h\h

455
00:46:56,880 --> 00:47:02,640
documentary that I made for channel 7 Australia\h
which you can view uh I think a lot of people\h\h

456
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:09,000
have ripped it off and put it on on the web if\h
you find it but essentially we we went to Texas\h\h

457
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:14,700
I I decided it was time one of the things that\h
I have copped a lot in the last few years from\h\h

458
00:47:14,700 --> 00:47:20,700
people is that in my book and also in the films\h
that I've made I've never addressed people who\h\h

459
00:47:20,700 --> 00:47:27,000
purport to be victims of abduction encounters\h
with non-human entities frankly I've never known\h\h

460
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:34,680
quite what to do with it and we heard about a\h
guy in Texas called Jim marlin who purported to\h\h

461
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:40,260
be an abductee and he still does by the way I find\h
him a highly interesting and credible and lovely\h\h

462
00:47:40,260 --> 00:47:48,540
bloke and he also claims to be in possession\h
of an object that he believes is of non-human\h\h

463
00:47:48,540 --> 00:47:55,980
manufacture and it's uh very interesting because\h
the metallic sphere that he's in possession of\h\h

464
00:47:55,980 --> 00:48:01,860
bears an uncanny resemblance to what are known\h
as bits balls which are these metallic objects\h\h

465
00:48:01,860 --> 00:48:09,000
that were discovered by people in and around\h
the United States and since the 1970s in fact\h\h

466
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:14,340
I've received calls from people all over the world\h
who've seen some of these spheres and a couple of\h\h

467
00:48:14,340 --> 00:48:19,380
people are actually in possession of them now in\h
terms of where we're at with the testing basically\h\h

468
00:48:19,380 --> 00:48:25,560
we took scrapings off the sphere and took those\h
to Professor Gary Nolan at Stanford University\h\h

469
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:33,360
Gary's still doing his tests and he has a day job\h
which he has to do uh we're not in a position to\h\h

470
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:38,940
be able to pay an enormous amount of money for\h
the kind of testing that needs to be done so we\h\h

471
00:48:38,940 --> 00:48:44,040
have to wait for the laboratory results to come\h
in from Gary and as we promised in the story we\h\h

472
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:49,020
will publish those results if and when we get them\h
the good news that I've heard from Gary this week\h\h

473
00:48:49,020 --> 00:48:56,760
is we've been very worried about how you X-ray how\h
you scan a solid metallic object like this and we\h\h

474
00:48:56,760 --> 00:49:03,060
have now apparently found a person who is willing\h
to scan this object with a proper industrial x-ray\h\h

475
00:49:03,060 --> 00:49:08,460
machine so we may be able to look inside it\h
and get some idea of the contents of the object\h\h

476
00:49:08,460 --> 00:49:13,020
one of the difficulties that I hadn't actually\h
contemplated is that when you go to an industrial\h\h

477
00:49:13,020 --> 00:49:18,120
X-ray place and ask them to x-ray something they\h
want to know what's inside it that's interesting\h\h

478
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:24,000
and since we don't know what's inside it we can't\h
guarantee to them that the x-rays won't interfere\h\h

479
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:28,860
with what's inside it so you're saying that that's\h
a good question that's why we're coming to you\h\h

480
00:49:28,860 --> 00:49:33,180
yeah yeah but I mean a lot of people have given\h
have given me stick for basically even giving\h\h

481
00:49:33,180 --> 00:49:37,920
credit to the idea that there might be something\h
anomalous about this and just to explain we're\h\h

482
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:43,440
not saying that no what we are doing is we're\h
giving we're doing what what frankly Louis zondo\h\h

483
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:49,740
is arguing we should all be doing objectively\h
assessing the data and essentially what are you\h\h

484
00:49:49,740 --> 00:49:54,120
suggesting are you suggesting that we should just\h
stick our heads in the sand and ignore this issue\h\h

485
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:59,940
no I think for us though I mean can I just finish\h
this point yeah I'm sorry yeah John Mack wrote a\h\h

486
00:49:59,940 --> 00:50:05,820
book about abductions he wrote a book John Mack\h
from Harvard University Professor Harvard wrote a\h\h

487
00:50:05,820 --> 00:50:12,600
book about abductions and Ralph blumenthal's done\h
a follow-up biography on John Mack recently and\h\h

488
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:18,480
even Harvard University was forced to accept that\h
it was legitimate for John Mack as a scientist\h\h

489
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:26,040
to investigate the abduction phenomenon that's\h
all we're doing and the interesting thing to me\h\h

490
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:34,200
about the Marlin case the sphere the purported\h
bit sphere from Texas is that he is claiming\h\h

491
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:40,980
not only to be someone who's had encounters with\h
extraterrestrial or non-human entities he's also\h\h

492
00:50:40,980 --> 00:50:48,720
claiming to be in possession of a sphere that\h
is he believes of non-human origin Let's test\h\h

493
00:50:48,720 --> 00:50:53,340
it we don't lose anything or gain anything by\h
testing it more we might gain something if it\h\h

494
00:50:53,340 --> 00:50:59,460
turns out to be alien technology but you know I'm\h
skeptical and what I'm doing is I'm indulging that\h\h

495
00:50:59,460 --> 00:51:05,100
Curiosity and frankly if people want to give us a\h
bollocksing for doing scientific text testing and\h\h

496
00:51:05,100 --> 00:51:10,800
trying to be objective about it then [\h__\h] them\h
I don't give a shout I really don't I mean this\h\h

497
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:16,980
is this is what we should be doing uh you know the\h
the reality is um and it's funny because you know\h\h

498
00:51:16,980 --> 00:51:22,140
there's this kind of mockery that takes place oh\h
gosh Ross is engaging with Brazos and who believes\h\h

499
00:51:22,140 --> 00:51:29,220
this phenomenon is real it doesn't mean I do no\h
I mean and and and and and what what the what\h\h

500
00:51:29,220 --> 00:51:35,220
the people what the critics don't understand\h
is this is what we've got to start doing and\h\h

501
00:51:35,220 --> 00:51:41,580
frankly this is what we will start doing when you\h
have an American government that is at this very\h\h

502
00:51:41,580 --> 00:51:47,940
moment acknowledging the possibility that the\h
explanation for this phenomenon is extraterres\h\h

503
00:51:47,940 --> 00:51:54,840
industrial or alien when that possibility is\h
being openly canvassed by former directors of\h\h

504
00:51:54,840 --> 00:52:01,680
the intelligence agencies I think the Director\h
of National Intelligence Avril Haynes anything\h\h

505
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:08,280
is possible so yes bugger you we will be looking\h
at this and you know and frankly if people do\h\h

506
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:13,740
if people want to take us on about that then\h
stuff then I don't know rat's ass Ross you've\h\h

507
00:52:13,740 --> 00:52:18,900
just opened up a whole new cult art here this is\h
uh fascinating to me look you're going to get a\h\h

508
00:52:18,900 --> 00:52:25,020
lot less uh [\h__\h] for the bets ball story than\h
I will for from people who say why won't Bryce\h\h

509
00:52:25,020 --> 00:52:32,340
let Ross talk so uh okay so I'm sure I'll get more\h
comments than you listen here's what I just want\h\h

510
00:52:32,340 --> 00:52:37,560
to say about what what you just said besides\h
my admiration for your Artful use of profanity\h\h

511
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:46,980
um and that would be what is this all about um you\h
know is there already a party line about what is\h\h

512
00:52:46,980 --> 00:52:52,260
acceptable or unacceptable to say about UFOs I\h
think there can't be since nobody knows exactly\h\h

513
00:52:52,260 --> 00:53:00,660
what they represent so yeah we are going to pursue\h
things and uh we'll try to do them as legitimately\h\h

514
00:53:00,660 --> 00:53:05,640
as we can but the one promise that we're where\h
we're trying to be a little bit different is we're\h\h

515
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:10,860
saying if we raise something we're not going to\h
let it just die we're going to report back to you\h\h

516
00:53:10,860 --> 00:53:16,800
all right so as Ross has just said at some point\h
Gary uh Nolan is going to get back to Ross about\h\h

517
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:21,660
this and Ross is going to get back to you people\h
who are listening and uh and that's the way it's\h\h

518
00:53:21,660 --> 00:53:28,320
supposed to be so I guess now Russ you have to\h
turn the tables and I've got to do my Mia culpa\h\h

519
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:35,880
okay so let's talk about this Ian the story that\h
you and I have put to air on seven spotlights\h\h

520
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:42,720
digital channel which anybody can access by going\h
on YouTube and putting in seven Spotlight UFOs\h\h

521
00:53:42,720 --> 00:53:50,100
you'll find the one hour 20 minute story from you\h
and I in which we interview your old colleague and\h\h

522
00:53:50,100 --> 00:53:58,860
good friend Brent Friedman who was the co-producer\h
of dark skies and in the course of your Dark Skies\h\h

523
00:53:58,860 --> 00:54:05,700
launch you you guys both told this extraordinary\h
story about how these two Intelligence Officers\h\h

524
00:54:05,700 --> 00:54:12,060
men who purported to be from the Department of\h
Navy intelligence came to your home at first\h\h

525
00:54:12,060 --> 00:54:18,840
and then to your Dark Skies production office\h
and yeah at one stage the guy wrote on a napkin\h\h

526
00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:27,240
what he described preposterously as the secrets\h
of the universe sound light and frequency now\h\h

527
00:54:27,240 --> 00:54:34,440
everyone including me my friend wants to know what\h
happened to the napkin okay and you know partly\h\h

528
00:54:35,220 --> 00:54:40,260
um that documentary uh that Ross is referring\h
to again if you just can remember need to know\h\h

529
00:54:40,260 --> 00:54:46,140
dot today it's there you can go there need to\h
know dot today and you can watch it uh the one\h\h

530
00:54:46,140 --> 00:54:50,880
thing about that is Rawson because this thing was\h
made so quickly Ross and I did not have Final Cut\h\h

531
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:58,080
on on how to uh edit the what actually finally\h
aired and so as a consequence that little detail\h\h

532
00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:03,060
did slip by and believe me if you look at the\h
comments a lot of people were saying okay man\h\h

533
00:55:03,060 --> 00:55:08,940
you you talked about this show us so I'm gonna\h
tell you that but let me just back up very quickly\h\h

534
00:55:08,940 --> 00:55:15,960
here's what happened it's December it's 1996 NBC\h
is putting a show on called Dark Skies I'm having\h\h

535
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:20,940
a party at my house 200 people a guy shows up\h
at the house says he's from the office Office\h\h

536
00:55:20,940 --> 00:55:28,080
of Naval intelligence talks to me my partner Brent\h
Friedman and another producer Brad Markowitz and\h\h

537
00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:34,620
and Brent's wife and uh tells us that they want\h
to help us with our show to get things right okay\h\h

538
00:55:34,620 --> 00:55:40,020
well with you can hear Brent's version in my\h
version in that documentary at the end of this\h\h

539
00:55:40,020 --> 00:55:44,940
thing though the guy asked for a piece of paper\h
I remembered it as a napkin Brent remembered\h\h

540
00:55:44,940 --> 00:55:50,280
it as getting a piece of paper from his wife off\h
their checkbook uh you know that's what memory is\h\h

541
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:57,060
sometimes those but anyway the guy takes a piece\h
of paper and he starts writing on it and he says\h\h

542
00:55:57,060 --> 00:56:03,960
um why don't you keep this for a few years and\h
this may make more sense then and he holds up this\h\h

543
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:10,260
thing that looks like a mathematical formula and\h
he and we said what is that and he said secret of\h\h

544
00:56:10,260 --> 00:56:14,100
the universe I don't remember him saying Secrets\h
I thought he said secret but see that's what I'm\h\h

545
00:56:14,100 --> 00:56:19,620
saying he said secret of the universe sound light\h
and frequency all right so everybody's saying\h\h

546
00:56:19,620 --> 00:56:29,400
great show us the equation okay so here is my best\h
explanation of that when this happened um I was\h\h

547
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:34,440
again hosting a party out in my backyard I didn't\h
take possession of this piece of paper Brent did\h\h

548
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:41,040
Brent took it with him um he went back to where\h
he was living and he put it in his safe deposit\h\h

549
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:47,100
box as instructed and to be honest with you uh\h
I saw it with my own eyes so did Brad so did\h\h

550
00:56:47,100 --> 00:56:54,960
Brent so that his wife a couple other people but\h
you know the way life works is you get you got a\h\h

551
00:56:54,960 --> 00:57:00,240
family you got a job you start paying attention to\h
that Dark Skies got canceled Brent and I moved on\h\h

552
00:57:01,140 --> 00:57:07,320
um over the years I would ask him about it he\h
would say yeah it's safe and secure and a few\h\h

553
00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:13,440
years ago I just said you know enough I want to\h
see it I'm tired of this please take a digital\h\h

554
00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:20,220
photo and send it to me I want to see it and uh\h
I really put my own friendship with Brent on the\h\h

555
00:57:20,220 --> 00:57:26,580
line I demanded to see it and so he went looking\h
for it and then he he looked in this safe deposit\h\h

556
00:57:26,580 --> 00:57:31,560
box and it wasn't there and then he remembered\h
that he had taken it out of his safe deposit\h\h

557
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:36,540
box when they changed Banks or something and\h
he'd taken it home so I said look man you got\h\h

558
00:57:36,540 --> 00:57:41,700
to find it because you know it's it's a quarter\h
of a century it's time for us to tell this story\h\h

559
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:50,880
so Brent has been looking for it and has not yet\h
found it it frustrates me as much as you Ross as\h\h

560
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:58,440
much as anybody who's watching uh that documentary\h
uh all I can tell you is um if I have to go up to\h\h

561
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:04,320
Brent's house myself and go through it or get the\h
FBI to go to his house you know they're not going\h\h

562
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:09,660
to do that but if I had to go look for it myself\h
I will do it because I just think you realize this\h\h

563
00:58:09,660 --> 00:58:14,880
is going to sport a whole new conspiracy theory\h
for us that the the Men in Black the the Navy\h\h

564
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:20,460
intelligence guys rifled the house and opened the\h
safety deposit box and took the napkin and I know\h\h

565
00:58:20,460 --> 00:58:24,540
it's all been a massive cover-up I I mean you're\h
adamant you're adamant that this document was real\h\h

566
00:58:24,540 --> 00:58:31,680
oh no formula that he wrote was real um doubt\h
in my mind I was there I saw him write it I saw\h\h

567
00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:39,360
what it looked like I think that the thing that's\h
hard for people uh to accept is that you would do\h\h

568
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:43,140
you would get something like this and you wouldn't\h
instantly go well this is super important I better\h\h

569
00:58:43,140 --> 00:58:48,540
hold on to it but you have to understand that you\h
know Brandon and I were producing a show we moved\h\h

570
00:58:48,540 --> 00:58:53,580
on but at the same time we thought well we'll put\h
it in a safe place and someday later we'll address\h\h

571
00:58:53,580 --> 00:58:58,680
it because we weren't sure these guys were who\h
they said they were so if they were putting us\h\h

572
00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:03,900
on we thought why are we going to waste precious\h
time looking into it look there's one more bit\h\h

573
00:59:03,900 --> 00:59:10,680
of laundry before we go that I want to deal with\h
which is um I'm gratified and and the flattered\h\h

574
00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:16,080
and humbled by the response that both you and I\h
are getting from our audience all around the world\h\h

575
00:59:17,460 --> 00:59:23,220
um I at the moment though am overwhelmed and\h
quite emotionally and mentally exhausted from the\h\h

576
00:59:23,220 --> 00:59:28,860
volume of emails and messages that I'm receiving I\h
tried to add them up the other day on the multiple\h\h

577
00:59:28,860 --> 00:59:36,480
platforms that I use but I've got somewhere\h
between 35 to 40 000 unopened emails and messages\h\h

578
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:44,040
the volume of information coming in the door is\h
frankly enormous and I I wish you and I had the\h\h

579
00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:48,720
resources to be able to investigate it as much\h
as we'd like Bryce because it's quite exciting\h\h

580
00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:54,540
I mean there's some astonishing information some\h
astonishing informants coming forward and all I\h\h

581
00:59:54,540 --> 01:00:00,780
would plead for is I'm gratified that people are\h
contacting me but please be patient I've got some\h\h

582
01:00:00,780 --> 01:00:05,220
people who are furious with me because I haven't\h
been able to respond to them and they don't appear\h\h

583
01:00:05,220 --> 01:00:11,820
to understand I'm just one guy doing this on the\h
back of an oily rag you know literally on the back\h\h

584
01:00:11,820 --> 01:00:16,920
of an envelope right mixing my metaphors there I\h
don't have the resources I don't have a pay great\h\h

585
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:20,700
stuff you and I aren't getting paid for doing\h
this by the way we're doing this as a public\h\h

586
01:00:20,700 --> 01:00:26,160
service and and frankly I think we would like to\h
talk to our audience about the fact that we'd like\h\h

587
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:31,920
to become more professional we'd like to upgrade\h
what we do wouldn't we yeah I mean I I think\h\h

588
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:37,440
that is a great Point first of all I feel your\h
pain uh 37 you know when I get a hundred behind\h\h

589
01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:44,220
a hundred I'm like okay I I'm just deleting them\h
all because I I gotta I gotta get an empty mailbox\h\h

590
01:00:44,220 --> 01:00:50,880
so I totally get that it's overwhelming um we did\h
start need to know on the theory that if we build\h\h

591
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:57,360
it they will come and so far it looks like we\h
were right not only does Ross have 37 000 emails\h\h

592
01:00:57,360 --> 01:01:02,100
sitting around his box waiting to be answered\h
but you know close to a million people watch\h\h

593
01:01:02,100 --> 01:01:08,700
our last version of need to know so yeah we are\h
gratified but we realize that you know right now\h\h

594
01:01:09,540 --> 01:01:17,220
um it's just basically two guys and and uh our\h
producer Rich Johnson and you know we're singing\h\h

595
01:01:17,220 --> 01:01:23,460
this part of it and I think the the message that\h
we want to give people uh who are watching and\h\h

596
01:01:23,460 --> 01:01:30,420
listening is that we're on it we have now done the\h
building uh we have uh in this latest documentary\h\h

597
01:01:30,420 --> 01:01:36,300
attempt um something that we can show people and\h
I think our goal is to find a way to level up\h\h

598
01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:42,300
um what exactly form that will take uh we're\h
working on but I think our goal is to get to\h\h

599
01:01:42,300 --> 01:01:48,780
a place where Ross doesn't have to face 37 000\h
emails by himself I think we're getting to a place\h\h

600
01:01:48,780 --> 01:01:55,620
where we'd like to have a more professional help\h
pulling us together uh in doing this thing and\h\h

601
01:01:55,620 --> 01:02:01,440
again that's why I was so grateful to what channel\h
7 did by just stepping in and going hey you know\h\h

602
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:06,540
we'd love to see uh I mean it's no secret that\h
you and I are you and I are quite Keen to interest\h\h

603
01:02:06,540 --> 01:02:13,080
Channel 7 my bosses or somebody in a TV series I'd\h
love it I mean I'd love nothing more than kind of\h\h

604
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:19,680
like a a 60 Minutes of uaps where we can travel go\h
and meet people and properly tell or investigate\h\h

605
01:02:19,680 --> 01:02:25,380
these stories but at the moment that's just a\h
pipe dream but I dream of having paid research\h\h

606
01:02:25,380 --> 01:02:30,960
staff who can actually process the information\h
and do credit to the the wonderful people who are\h\h

607
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:36,480
getting in touch and I don't want to discourage\h
people I promise you we're really keen and I'm\h\h

608
01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:41,160
loving the information but please understand\h
well be patient and by the way you just raised\h\h

609
01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:48,720
a really excellent point though buried in those\h
37 not buried they're in those 37 000 emails and\h\h

610
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:55,140
and comments that we get are a lot of uh you know\h
attaboys which we appreciate because like you know\h\h

611
01:02:55,140 --> 01:03:02,400
it's it's hard work and we appreciate it uh but\h
also inside all that information is our cases are\h\h

612
01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:08,760
explanations our history uh just people holding\h
us accountable adding their story to it and\h\h

613
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:14,760
uh as we we go forward we're going to find a way\h
probably in television I would assume some form of\h\h

614
01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:19,620
Television since that's what both of us have done\h
with most of our careers so we're going to find a\h\h

615
01:03:19,620 --> 01:03:25,080
way to hopefully up the game here um and and for\h
those of you who have been with us since that very\h\h

616
01:03:25,080 --> 01:03:30,660
first one that'll be an interesting uh ride that\h
you'll have taken along with us but yeah so listen\h\h

617
01:03:30,660 --> 01:03:35,280
we need to get help we'll get you some help Ross\h
in the meantime try not to lose too much sleep\h\h

618
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:42,360
over this so so I think that just about wrapses\h
for this week Bryce uh it's been lovely talking\h\h

619
01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:47,820
and uh exchanging views and I hope we've been able\h
to settle a few of the queries that we've had from\h\h

620
01:03:47,820 --> 01:03:54,300
our listeners and viewers we'll be back another\h
time soon with another episode of need to know\h\h